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PokerStars Replies to Question on Audits

6 April 2010, By: Charlie River

I had a reply from Joanne at regarding my blog about PokerStars auditing the RNG.

Since when do cute little fur balls come with a doom switch?

    • This one looked at all-in hands.

    • And this player looked at 100,000 hands to analyse card distribution.


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  • Romi 30/11/2010 1:43am (10 years ago)

    There is no way anybody can tell me any different. Pokerstars is rigged simply because hands are not random hands. There is no way that random poker works this way. Its just a scheme. I would discourage anyone from getting involved in this mess. You just can not win! Does not matter what you do. I would take a hard look at the players that make millions on this site and see who they are and what their affiliations are. You cant tell me that where there is so much money rolling there is no corruption. It may just be that some of them see your hand before you do. I spent quite abit of money and time to arrive at this traggic conclusion. Stay away from this site! It is horrible!

  • Doc 29/11/2010 9:18pm (10 years ago)

    PS & FT are safe, (if any of them are). On the other hand, PlayersOnly is most definitely a rigged site.... You can take that to the bank, but not any winnings that you have accrued there.

  • Sean 14/10/2010 3:00am (10 years ago)

    What a bunch of propaganda nonsense.....Pstars financial books itself have never been audited by an actual independent regulatory body, just by the site itself, and they also contract their RNG out to a 3rd party, which is also super shady. How do we know that some private corporation has the players' best interest at heart (or hasn't developed a flawed system to cut cost)? We know what happened over at UB when they leased out their servers to a 3rd party site.

    This is why they pour so much money into the PPA, so if (when) online poker is legalized in the U.S., they can be in the in the room to write the legislation and prevent it to be too harsh on their books and services so they can save money and hide whatever they choose.

    How about auditing how often European players win over US players (which makes sense b/c it is easier, and cheaper, to pay out those players due to the fees by banks and check processors for US clients b/c of UEIGA; as well as help marketing efforts in touting those players to get more people to despoit, also easier in Europe)? Or cash games and "action flops"; flops generated to create the max amount of action to keep a high volume of max rake (i.e. 4h5h v AA on a As3h6h board)? Even Paul Phillips eluded to the fact that "action flops, it's like online!" do occur during his WPT win in 2005....and he's one of the smartest people in computer science I have ever met.

    This isn't about short stacks winning all the time, or people losing 4.5 to 1 shots, or really cute anecdotes about happy cards from some blogger paid by the site.....this is serious f*cking business that has, and probably will never, be addressed b/c simply, it's not in Stars economic interest to be. If your goal is to make profit, in a business where you can take advantage of ppl wanting action/having gambling addiction, as well as the fact it's not 100% completely rigged b/c you can still outplay people and such, why WOULDN'T a company be tempted to pull of shenanigans to customers. Unfortunately, that question will never be answered b/c there is no independent body via online gaming regulation to GIVE that answer.

    Sadly, we'll keep playing here b/c besides here, FTP, Bodog, and Cake, there are no other options that gives the player 100% piece of mind everything is on the up-and-up.

  • كازينو 09/08/2010 12:46am (10 years ago)

    Hi guys, tried loading this blog through Google RSS reader and got a strange error message, any ideas what could be the issue?

  • lb 16/06/2010 3:44pm (11 years ago)

    The argument about rigged rng use by online gaming hosts is an honest concern, IMO.

    The solution to the truth about the matter of fairness in online poker is not a difficult one.

    Scientific studies often make use of blind tests to find results that are unbiased. The placibo test is such an example.

    The solution to finding out if online poker at any site is run on an unaltered RNG is to put the owner or the face behind the site in a blind test and the way to do that is also very simple.

    Negreanu, Ivey, Hanson, Brunson, Hellmuth, or any big game tv poker star could be the subject and perhaps any pro who runs online poker sites should be tested this way for integrity.

    The blind test is about having the pro play on an online players computer while no one is aware that it is he who is making the bets.

    Sure this would be a commitment by the pro but it would also be an acid test to show the integrity of the RNG used in the poker game.

    Selecting where the pro is playing would have to be totally secret and other detail factors would have to be considered but in the end this IMO is the only acid test that would convince me that online poker games are fair and run without corruption.

    I played online for a few bucks lately and cashed out about as quickly as I bought in after seeing way to many strange hand results.

    Chance, luck of the draw, that's poker.....maybe. For me the only way I could ever trust online gaming against pros who hustle clients by promoting themselves on national tv would be to have them perform the above mentioned test.

    Face it....5000 people playing 1 dollar hold em tables at a vig of 20 percent is the same as having a big whale playing slots and that is plenty of reason to keep them coming.

    Audit smaudit.....take the blind acid test above and prove me wrong.

    Internet poker RNG are rigged.

    It isn't about having Dan Negreanu of pokerstars or someone else who promotes himself and his mastery of the game of poker on national tv where physical cards are in play that while running online games

  • PokerStarsJoanne 07/04/2010 9:19am (11 years ago)

    JamesDaBear, I meant that some people see PokerStars, and all online poker, as out to get them like vicious dogs not cute ones. I only have knowledge of PokerStars but I would trust other online poker sites to deal fair games to their customers. Apologies if it came across as anything else, there are all kinds of nice poker operators out there, I'll leave it up to you to decide exactly which breeds of dogs they are!

  • Charlie 07/04/2010 9:00am (11 years ago)

    The hand histories that are made official are personal. I can only see my own hands. To be scientific you would need to study some kind of randomized selection of hands from many players.

    You’d also need more than the 1675 hands one of the posters had, and you’d need a trusted third party to perform the audit if you want it to have any effect.

    Some people will never stop doubting, that’s true. If you make a huge independent audit based on millions of actual hands and no traces of manipulation are found, doubters will still find things to be suspicious about, agreed

    But if you operate with that logic, why did you make the RNG audit in the first place?

    I think you (the online poker industry) should put your foot down and make a deeper and broader audit. It should clear out most of the haters after all.

  • compncards 06/04/2010 9:21pm (11 years ago)

    Apparently some of my info is outdated. It appears that most are now real beef. However, not all of them are. Some are still soy depending on your country, and there is the veggie burger.

    Online poker is going to always going to be considered rigged by some. No amount of study is going to change that. However, remember that many people consider live poker to be crooked or just pure luck.

  • PokerStarsJoanne 06/04/2010 9:16pm (11 years ago)

    In the UK the burgers are 100% beef. Although I don't eat them as I'm a vegetarian, that probably explains why I like puppies.

  • PokerStarsJoanne 06/04/2010 9:03pm (11 years ago)

    In the UK McDonalds burgers are 100% beef. Not that I eat them - I'm a vegetarian. Probably explains why I like puppies...