PokerJunkie > Blog > Online poker > Poker Stars Testing the RNG – Not Good Enough

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  • Paul 13/04/2014 11:27am (5 years ago)

    I would class myself as a online veteran, and after many, many years of playing online, I have concluded there is just no way to beat the system , if you flop a set playing TAG against a loose as hell fish playing with a 67% VPIP you might as well of missed the flop and saved your chips this is when you run into set vs set and the fish will come good by the river hitting his quads, wether it be how much money you have invested on the site or how fresh the fish is your in a pot with, the conclusion will always be the same, the best players get robbed and they don't want us sticking around, theres more action and rake to be made off fish. I have cashed in off pretty much every site I have played on so why I am typing this? because I also get robbed blind and if I won what I should of won based on math, I would be a rich man.

  • Nick 14/08/2012 2:30pm (6 years ago)

    Poker machines are programmed to INDUCE action so why not poker websites ? The day that on-line players post their real financials I will believe that there are people who can consistently beat the game.

    Live poker edges are minimal even for great players. Live players need sponsorship to pay tournament buy-ins and they need backers to finance cash games and reduce personal variance.

    Every long term poker player has gone bust many times. The smart ones invest elsewhere when variance favours them knowing that they cannot rely on poker consistently.

    It makes total sense that poker sites want to keep you coming back for more and don't want the fish to get killed too fast or too often. It's all about business volume and rake.

    They are rigged the same way as all casino games...in favour of the house. The key is to find the way to beat the other players because you never beat the house and get away with it for long. Ask MIT.

  • barbydoll 12/08/2012 11:04pm (6 years ago)

    No shit, my last 5 all-in hands on PS (PokerStars) went like this (me first, opponent, flop, turn, river):

    1. k3 9T 99K Q 9 (ALL-IN AFTER FLOP). 4 X 9's beats full house ....set up???
    2. JA AJ 44J 5 T (ALL-IN AFTER RIVER) J a set up?
    3. 55 TT (NOTHING ON DRAW) beat by better hand...of course no draw!
    4. J8 AK 482 6 7 (ALL-IN WITH 4 OF KIND AFTER FLOP) 4 of 5 common cards gave flush. set up
    5. AT 77 269 T 7 ALL-IN AFTER TURN...YOU GUESSED IT 7 ON RIVER!) of course this guy gets his 7 on river.

    Can't win on poker stars if win only 1 in 10 times s when all in with winning hand 50% of time at time of all-in call (see previous post).



    Moral: 1. Don't go all in!
    2. PokerStars is rigged agisnst all-in play....unless you are a bot?

  • barbydoll 07/08/2012 1:42pm (6 years ago)

    I have played for the past 4 years at Full Tilt and PokerStars,and for the past year at PokerStars. Over the past 3 months I have played over 250 S&G 9 player matches ranging from $3.50 to $60. I have no reservation calling all-in with a decent hand.

    I began sensing that I wasn't receiving random draws when called or being called on all in play and began tracking my all in play through May where my unrefined tracking indicated that I won 50% of the time when all in with the best hand and only 7% when all in with the weaker hand. The analysis was unrefined so I devised a more refined system for the past 50 days.

    I have devised a simple system for tracking contested all in outcomes as follows:

    1. AW - winning hand at time of all in challenge .. and Win outcome
    2. AL - winning hand at time of all in challenge .. and Lose outcome
    3. BW - losing hand at time of all-in challenge .. and Win outcome
    4. BL - winning hand at time of all-in challenge .. and Lose outcome

    Results for the last 101 games in which I have either gone all-in and been contested or called an all-in bet are as follows

    1. AW - 6
    2. AL - 44
    3. BW - 4
    4. BL - 47

    This more refined second sample reflects the same concerns as my ealier unrefined sample.

    Primary Conclusions:

    a. 50% (50/101) of the time, I have the best hand when all-in call is challeged and 50% (51/101)of the time I have the weaker hand at the time of the all-in challenge.

    b. Going into the all-in challenge with the best hand I win 12% of the time and lose 88% of the time.
    Going into the all-in challenge with the weaker hand I win 8%% of the time and lose 92% of the time.

    These results seriously contradict any reasonable probable outcomes based on statistical theory and seriously call into question any claim by PokerStars of "random common cards". Alternatively, these recent results would support a theory that cards dealt after all-in challenges are manipulated by some embedded algorithm in PokerStars programming.

    Note: I should win at least 50% of all-in challenges where I have the best hand at the time of the challenge. In fact, just as I lose 92% of the time when challenging with the weaker hand, one might think that I should win 92% of the time when I have the better hand at the time of the all-in challenge.

    Something reeks at PokerStars methinks!

    (Please feel free to test this rather simple test of common card randomness at PokerStars!)

  • josef 27/07/2012 3:02am (6 years ago)

    keizer is correct!!! it is exactly like that... rigged to induce action and rebuy
    thats y only the long run is profitable which means for the pokersite more money coming in cause u need a big bankroll... maybe oneday we will have a random online poker.. but I doubt it cause it is profitable only to the good players and they r not a big percentage of all players which means allot of firsttimers will not keep playing or rebuying and just quit the program for good!
    im talking from a long charted exprience to calculate this weird continues "bad beats" and "good luck" its all programmed to induce more money coming in...
    one day....

  • bdb 16/07/2012 10:18am (6 years ago)

    Really? Cmon, OF COURSE pokerstars (and other online poker sites) are never going to try and provide hardcore-evidence that there site is not rigged. It's becuase they CAN'T!!! If they could, they would have done it already FOR SURE! Think about this, there are many,many.many,many players out there (like me and numbering in the millions worldwide I'm sure) that have given-up online poker for good because of the fact it doesn't seem fair. If the poker sites could give us all some solid-proof that online poker is indeed fair and safe, they would get at least some of that business back. Yet they don't, Why? 2 reasons. 1) Once again, I don't think they can and 2) They obviously must figure that cheating those players that newly join or stay with them will more than makeup for the business they lose. If pokerstars (or any other major online site) ever agreed to allow an independant company to randomly audit individual players' accounts using their own software to track these players' hand histories and could verify that no player being audited generally recieved any better or worse card-luck over a large-sampling of time than any other player, I would begin to think I was wrong when I say online poker is rigged. However, MARK MY WORDS! It will NEVER HAPPEN. It's not that they can't do this, it's just that they don't want to be exposed for the lying, cheating, conniving, stealing bunch of corrupt thieves they REALLY ARE!!!

  • pokerdo 08/07/2012 6:30pm (6 years ago)

    if you think its rigged plz tell me why you keep playing online poker is it just easyer to play live poker,most pubs these day have small tournaments for under 50 dollars -they feed on your addictive make-up too make more money that is what games about money just be smart not a retard. play live game's and stop fucking wingen about shit!!!!!!!!which own stupid fault for playing when you know its rigged just like poker-machine's for fuck sake get over it and play live then judge how fucked poker is,because i have had just as many bad beats on live table, as have had online buts thats poker its game of chance and for good players they know odds better but it still a game of chance, that's why they call it gambling.so for all you muppets go back to the muppet-show. and know when to hold-em an know when to fold-em,know when walk away, kown when to RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Wiliam 09/05/2012 7:00am (7 years ago)

    I participated in a Sit 'n Go where, at the final table, the player with fewer chips (700), received a pair of AA. That's normal. But immediately following the play, he got KK. And, on immediately following play, he got AA again! As if not enough, on the immediately following play he was allin against a player with KQ. He had 74 and made ​​a straight. Come on. It's a joke.

  • Name 26/04/2012 11:35pm (7 years ago)

    Hello poker fans:) First of all I would like to tell, that all those of you who think that online poker is 100% fair are very naive. The house can cheat, players can cheat in different ways. My experinece as online player isnt very good. I play on PS for about a year, but what is happening there is just a joke. At first I thought, ok I am a bad palyer and I loose money (I played the micro stakes MTTs and SNGs), so I started studying the game, reading books, watching videos, etc. Ok my game improved a lot, but bad beats never ended. One month ago I started to take notes in excel how many time I loose when we go AI 1) I have top pair or better and they have flush draw, 2) how many times I hit flush when they have a pai or betterr, and 3) how many times when we both have a pair but me with better kicker he hits the second pair, 4) AK or AQ against Ax. 1) 110/166 , 2) 55/149, 3) 38/78, 4) 144/206, now you can evaluate the odds in pokerstove.
    Ok you can say that this is not enough big sample size, but that kind of a crap is happening to me all the time, because of that I started to take notes, I just had a feeling that something isnt right here.
    Its really funny how can donks hit wathever they need, runner runner straights, flushes, etc. And when someone makes a complain on poker forums about poker rooms, the pros started to talk about variance. Of course, the best excuse is varinace, a thing that you cannot prove. And when you watch the videos which they posted on forums, they just dont play nothing special, only that they have luck that their hands hold up a great portion of time, especially in big pots. I would like to see them playing on accounts like my is.
    Sites are cheating (rigging) us, but not in the way we think, they dont rig us in the way, "hey, this man cannot win", there are just hot accounts and there are cold accounts, they are just randomly choosen.

  • John Doe(pokerfan) 26/04/2012 1:23pm (7 years ago)

    look here everyone, pokerstars is rigged. The more money you have in your account, the more awarded you'll be by pokerstars. It's a business deal like with the stock market. THE MORE SHARES YOU PURCHASE, THE GREATER CHANCE YOU HAVE TO OBTAIN TO ACCUMULATE WEALTH. I feel it is rigged obviously 100 percent otherwise, pokerstars wouldn't be as successful as the are.

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